pseudo manitou ([info]pseudomanitou) wrote,
@ 2003-10-14 18:52:00
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IMPORTANT... (to artists on Deviant art anyway...)
I cut myself with an exacto knife at work today. This will make the first time I've cut myself with ANY knife in over seven years - I shit you not. Just look at the sign above my head that used to say "over 2700 days without an accident" - it has been cranked back to '0'. :(

But that's not why I'm posting! This is a warning to all illustrators!

Do not take up any offer from this man at cbone22@earthlink.net, or any contract regarding this website - http://sharkbones.com/

Two weeks ago, I was contacted by this individual - and I smelled "start-up scam" from the very second I saw the website. I've been through internet deals before - , everyone, and I mean EVERYONE of those who had some sort of "business deal" set up online has wasted my time - the one thing I prize second only to Leona. For that reason alone, I refused this person's offer and quickly forgot about him.

But today, I read pyrobunny's LiveJournal post:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/pyrobunny/133938.html

...this is not a place anyone should want to do business. No matter what the issue is with this guy, nothing in business can be personal. You cannot expect someone such as that to deliver payment, or to disperse your artwork in a manner that respects the work, -you can't even expect such a person to honor any agreement - not if they are capable of treating prospected artists this way.

Stay far away from this individual - he may be able to make something of himself and his business goals - but not yet. He has much to learn - and no one should have to give him the time to do that.

...well... bled through the band-aid typing this, need to refresh the dressings and clean off the keyboard. Then, off to the Yerf reviews. Hope this helps...

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[info]evad4you
2003-10-14 06:07 pm UTC (link)
HAhahahahaha... so when I started reading this I saw Deviant Art and got my interest peaked. Then I saw "I cut myself with an exacto knife at work today. This will make the first time I've cut myself with ANY knife in over seven years"... and I immediately thought, "God damnit, pseudomanitou is another depressive goth self mutilation freak on dev art"...

ROFL... i figured it out though.

As a disclaimer, I love Deviant Art. I write there and have a lot of respect for some of the artists and writers.

(Reply to this)


[info]arphalia
2003-10-15 12:26 am UTC (link)
Oof. I got one of his emails but never did respond to it. I checked over the site and was kinda turned off buy the idea I wasn't going to be paid something upfront, nor did it seem like I woud be getting anything out of it unless it took off. And, well, given the site wasn't really finished to a point where it should have been if one is to send out emails to people.. Well, yeah, I just never replied.

(Reply to this)

Now wait a minute....
[info]starbiter
2003-10-15 08:07 am UTC (link)
The CD-opener doesn't count?

Are you like, Mr. Yerf Reviewer now? I remember you mentioning that. Meh. Me bad for falling out of touch. :hugs:

(Reply to this)


[info]jill_calico
2003-12-12 01:04 pm UTC (link)
The journal you linked to doesn't exist, so I can read the post, but thanks for the warning...I got the proposition a few days ago and now I won't respond.


P.S. I think you (and this journal) are brilliant.

(Reply to this)

Scam or Deal?
[info]danielle777
2004-02-14 11:52 pm UTC (link)
I was browsing the web looking for info on this same company, and I came across this thread. My apologies if this is a private discussion.

Maybe they have a madman working for them, but why are you guys griping about the artists not being paid enough? If you are gonna knock this kid for being unprofessional, okay that's one thing, but if you're trying to hold the entire site accountable, that's wrong! think about how much the artist is being paid for each piece that is used on their website, its easy to see that the artists are making much more than the standard rate for each piece of work, albeit not all at once.

Picture this: If the artist simply sold a piece to them for $80 as someone suggested, for unlimited use of the work, THAT would be a ripoff compared to what he's offering the artists. If they sell 35 tshirts with that image on it, they've already made $80 on that image! If that image sold 100 shirts, that artist would make $240 on just one image.

I recently tried to start a retail business (similar idea, different medium), and it never got off the ground because the overhead and startup costs were too high. With a tshirt business, he probably has a lot of other costs that no one is considering. A $16 T-Shirt could end up only being $1 in his pocket after the cost of the shirt, the production, the advertisement, the website, the management, and the shipping. I'm playing devil's advocate here, so please don't flame me. I'd rather you guys actually consider these things. When you make an argument, stick to the facts. Thanks for this discussion!

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: Scam or Deal?
[info]pseudomanitou
2004-02-15 01:53 pm UTC (link)
The fact that this deal may or may not be a good one is hardly a matter of concern when the individual cannot be trusted to do what they are supposed to do by contract or by reputation. On-line business is touchy enough without trying to work with someone that unstable. I wish I could show you the e-mails that were traded to give you a proper idea of what I was dealing with. In the end - I imagine this person might attempt to screw an artist if that artist does something to irk this head individual. I could be wrong - but it's not worth taking the risk.

Last thing any of us need is to have to deal with the legal complications of that. The legal costs of trying to protect our artwork could quickly grow far beyond any start-up costs.

Best bet is to avoid it entirely. There are far more options anyway.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Scam or Deal?
[info]danielle777
2004-02-18 12:30 am UTC (link)
Actually I did read the email thread posted on deviantart between the two parties. The artist responded rudely and then the guy making the offer was rude in return. I agree it's bad business to respond to people in a rude manner. But it seems like both were acting like children towards each other. You make it out to be one-sided. And you calling it "unstable" is childish in your part. Unstable implies that the person is like a mental patient. There were both acting like immature kids. Immaturity is one thing, but instability is another. My friend is one of the artists on Sharkbones.com ..She wasn't rude and she wasn't treated rudely either. I don't see how she was scammed just because she wants to make some money for doing what she loves. I know my art isn't that good right now, but i'm trying to submit some of my stuff there and hopefully I will be one of the artists along with my friend. I was worried about the situation you guys are talking about and I wrote to him asking him to explain it and he was very upfront about it. So i think you are just being a lynch mob here trying to crucify someone like on the Rikki Lake show where the audience has the IQ of a peanut and just go along with everything just to create drama. I'm not saying any of you are stupid, i'm just saying it's not always a good idea to be part of a mob mentality.

Just my two cents:)

Danielle

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Scam or Deal?
[info]pseudomanitou
2004-02-18 11:26 am UTC (link)
You are right about the subject contained in the link. I won't even try to defend the other woman's e-mail.

However, MY e-mails back and forth with this individual were professional, swift, and to the point, and yet the response I received in two cases was extremely rude. When I blocked the individual, they set up another hotmail account for the purpose of getting in the last word, and a rather offensive one at that. Thus, my opinion of them as unstable is quite valid - in the business sense. I will not enter into a contract of any sort over the internet if they are so easily made to become enraged, and I would hate to see any artists I have contact with stumble into this problem without any prior knowledge.

Just because this individual has a different story, doesn't mean my account of events is false - it just means that there are two stories, and you are going to have to decide which version you wish to believe.

I think you have already made up your mind, though.

I tried to warn who I could in relation to me - I wish for that to be the end of the matter.

You, of course, are free to make your own choice.

But do stop with the accusations. If you know of me or my work at all, you'll understand that mob mentality is something I am very aware of, and I will not stand by idly if accused of being a part of it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Scam or Deal?
[info]danielle777
2004-02-19 02:18 pm UTC (link)
I think you should stop with the accusations as you are obviously lying. I also read your email correspondence with the individual and it's obvious that you are both equally childish. Saying your remarks where short and professional is just an outright lie. I've read your own words. It shows you are being childish and insulting just like he was. Both of you acted like little children. And I find it disgusting that you think you are so innocent and you're just lying to cover up your own embarrassment. I have no made up my mind (now you are making false accusations against me.) I have read both sides of the story and seen both emails. You are the one who is lying and making up stories about your so-called "professionalism" and this other guy just being unstable. BOTH of you acted immaturely. And it's obviously that you're too immature to admit it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: Scam or Deal?
[info]pseudomanitou
2004-02-19 05:02 pm UTC (link)
What did you actually hope to gain here?

You made a journal account here specifically and only for the sake of debating me on this topic - a topic that is LONG dead. I'm not wasting effort on your obsession - not after your "Rikki Lake" comment. There is no longer any debating going on in your text. My comments stand no matter your issue.

You are done here.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

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